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Author Topic:   Head shots
Zoffenheim
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Registered: Aug 2000

posted October 12, 2000 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zoffenheim   Click Here to Email Zoffenheim     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Zoffenheim      
I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion is about head shots using the P-32. Do you suppose that the P-32, firing standard ball or even JHP, at typical close combat ranges (but not point-blank), generates enough energy to pierce the skull? (excluding, of course, lucky shots that pass through existing orifices) Forensic pathologist KTOGers, this is your time to speak up!!

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LeggNet
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posted October 13, 2000 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeggNet   Click Here to Email LeggNet     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by LeggNet      
This might shed some info on the stopping power of the .32
http://www.evanmarshall.com/towert/stoppingpowerfigures.htm

Rich

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[This message has been edited by LeggNet (edited October 13, 2000).]

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DougB
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From:California
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posted October 14, 2000 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DougB   Click Here to Email DougB     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by DougB      
I don't doubt that a FMJ .32 ACP could pierce the skull. I think almost any bullet will do so at close range if it hits more or less squarely. I think the problem with head shots is being able to make them. In a self-defense situation, the other person's head makes a pretty small target that is likely to be moving. Just my opinion - I have no particular expertise (except a lot of years of shooting).

Doug

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salefelar
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posted October 20, 2000 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salefelar   Click Here to Email salefelar     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by salefelar      
I think the .32 would pierce a human skull if it hit it squarely. Even a .22 is capable of doing so. A rounded FMJ round might have the tendency to deflect around the skull (under the scalp) if a glancing blow.

I was involved in a lawsuit (as a lawyer, not a participant) in which a person was shot at close range with a .25 in the back of the head. One bullet followed the outline of the skull under the scalp but did not pierce it but the other did pierce the skull and did some brain damage (not fatal).

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9mmepiphany
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From:sacramento, california
Registered: Oct 2000

posted October 31, 2000 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 9mmepiphany   Click Here to Email 9mmepiphany     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by 9mmepiphany      
if you plan on counting on a head shot for a reliable stop with a fmj in .32acp, you are living closer to the edge then i would venture...at much more than CQB/contact distances, penetration of the skull would depend on striking an orifice (eye,ear,nose or mouth)or flat surface (temple or soft palate)

hardball striking a curved surface of the skull would be like two billard balls hitting, a jhp would at least give the bullet some bite and additional transfer of energy. at contact distances, i think there would be more effect from the expanding gases entering the body cavity.

the 2 one shot .32 ACP stops that i have seen on the streets were strikes to the spinal cord/central nervous system
1. estranged husband meets wife's new lover, retrieves Walther PP loaded w/WW FMJ, fires one shot which enters front of b/f below sternum and above diaphram and strikes spinal cord. b/f goes down just like on tv, flat on back w/limbs outstreched.
2. drug dealer selling on the street, enforcer standing behind him, driveby shooting occurs, enforcer returns fire with Colt Pocket Auto loaded w/mixed brands of JHP & FMJ, dealer hit by friendly fire while enforcer tracks crossing vehicle, slug enters dealers base of skull while he is ducking, he falls like a sack of potatos.

i also saw a good body hit, R-P FMJ that went in under the ribs from the side and lodged in the back muscles. that victim was in the process of breaking down a door to get at his shooter with a baseball bat.

soooooo...my choice is to focus just under the chin and go for the brain stem/spinal cord. i can hit using my walther pp or baby browning...we'll see as soon as i get my hands on a p32

these are just street observations, no big letters behind my name...
hope this is helpful

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duncan
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Posts: 14
From:Redmond, Washington
Registered: May 2000

posted November 02, 2000 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for duncan   Click Here to Email duncan     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by duncan      
My doctor friends see .22lr headshots here and there in the ER here and there.

If the Isreali Massad use .22lr shots to the head behind the ear, a .32 acp round should be able to penetrate the head.

I'd aim for the nose that way if I'm high or low, I hit the eyes, the nose, the mouth, or the throat all of which will stop if not terminate the threat.

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Duncan
The Seattle SharpShooter

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MIKE
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Posts: 63
From:New York
Registered: Jul 2000

posted November 03, 2000 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MIKE   Click Here to Email MIKE     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by MIKE      
Chances are that no one on this board will ever need to shoot their gun in self defence in their entire lifetime. So why worry so much about headshots? Besides, every gun is lethal to the head most of the time.
Mike

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Tom
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From:Flippin, AR
Registered: Nov 2000

posted November 04, 2000 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Tom      
When I was 16 or 17, I used a .45 ACP Colt commander to defend myself against an attacking Doberman Pincher.

He came out of nowhere in the middle of the woods. I instinctivly drew the Colt and fired a warning shot about a foot in front of him, just before he reached me. The loud blast and the explosion in the dirt right in front of him changed his mind, and he turned tail, and dissapeared as quickly as he had materialized.

I'm glad I didn't have to shoot him, and the gun protected me.

I think that experience has something to do now with my desire/need to carry. The P32 would have done the job then, and is certainly better than no gun now in a situation when it might be difficult to carry something larger.

When I walk through the woods now, I still have a innate desire to carry a .45!

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Patrick
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posted November 04, 2000 09:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Patrick      
>>When I walk through the woods now, I still have a innate desire to carry a .45!<<

I'd rather shoot a bear with my P32 than my 45. The 45 would only piss the bear off more. :o)
I guess everything in life is relative.


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Patrick

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9mmepiphany
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Posts: 7
From:sacramento, california
Registered: Oct 2000

posted November 06, 2000 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 9mmepiphany   Click Here to Email 9mmepiphany     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by 9mmepiphany      
i agree with patrick

i'd rather have a p32 too...less weight- run and climb tree faster. i've seen some stunning failures to stops with handguns on dogs

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Tom
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From:Flippin, AR
Registered: Nov 2000

posted November 08, 2000 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Tom      
Well, I'm not going to go dog hunting with it.

But I don't feel that poorly armed, either. Based on my last dog attack experience, I've got a damn good chance to stop a single dog at point blank range with 8 rounds .32 silvertips.

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